Nonchrome 1934-38 taillight housing

[Fiskis]

At the AMCA Dessau 2005 meet my 1935 VDS was judged and the rap sheet was long as the Nordic winter. The taillight housing was painted black as I believed it always had been, which the judges noted as a deduction of points. After all we decided not to cut it up to a chopper, but re-restore it. The rivets holding the cups were removed on both the bike and the sidecar.
The cups could now be examined on the table. There is no trace of chromium anywhere only bare metal not even surface rust. (the bike has been sort of taken care of since new, no basket or junkyard find).
The sidecar light unit is salvaged from a '37 UL, which was in original paint 1969. We also disassembled a third taillight I found at a swap in Spain. There was no sign of chromium there either, but that could have come out of a military bike or something. I understand that the Servicars did not have chrome taillight housings. Also, a buddy has a '37 WL, and that had no visible chrome in 1968 when he bought it in original unrestored condition.
My questions are: Could it be that some export bikes (to Finland) did not have chrome?
Or were the taillight units plated together with the painted license bracket riveted so no chrome would enter the backside of the cup and no chrome would stick to the bracket?
If I get some support for black taillight housings, I'd like to keep them so, as the bike has a special history and I try to change it as little as possible.
Regards,
Fiskis

[koanes]

My 34VLD, purchased from the original owner, in original paint has a black tailight.

[Fiskis]

Thanks Koanes. Is there anybody out there who has removed an original chrome taillite cup from the license bracket, and noted if there was chrome visible. That would tell me if the cup was plated before riveting to the bracket.
Fiskis

[INLINE4NUT]

Ive had three in the box out of an OLD DEALERS SHELVE.....They there all BLACK !!!!
Maybe its not you????





MERRY CHRISTMAS&HAPPY NEWYEAR!!!!

[Mike L]

I've had at least 3 of these that you could still see the original chrome on the cup. One of these are on an original paint '36 VL fender. I have pic's of the original paint '34VD that has been at Dav. meet many times, with a chrome taillight cup.
These cups were chromed then riveted to the bracket.
I also bought a 35VLD that was pieced together I figure in the early fifty's that had a painted cup, I found out through judging when I restored it, it was a Hummer taillight.

[flthead]

judges......

ok any judges got an answer for this question ..... painted or chrome ?

[Tommo]

I've got a 1934 VL, that I bought off the original owner in 1960, that has a painted cup and it left the factory with that painted cup and to those who are wondering I was 12 years old when I bought that bike and I still have it today. A 71 year old machine thats only has 2 owners and never been restored.
My 1935 80 cu in VLD left the factory with the "DELUXE SOLO GROUP" option so has "special chrome plating" as described on the factory order sheet and consequently has a chrome tail light cup.
In my opinion it would be a pretty hard call to say what was right or wrong for each individual bike without consulting the factory delivery sheets for that particular machine.
That's my 2 cents worth anyway.
Regards, Tommo.

[Fiskis]

Thank you all for your answers.

Tommo, would your '34 be an original NZ export bike? Maybe w/sidecar like mine?

Inline4nut, the NOS items could be for Hummer or just cheaper replacements???

Mike L, This helps me a bit on the way to know, that if the cups were chromed, they were chromed separately. Then there should be some remain of chrome if there ever was.

There never was any Hummers imported to Finland. There was not many spare parts either imported as currency was tight and needed for war debts. So tailight problems were solved "the Cuban way" in the late 40:ies and early 50:ies. (Use anything resembling a red light).

Factory delivery sheets? The factory probaly got rid of them long time ago. Our general agent never took up H-D importation after the war.

[INLINE4NUT]

I dont think so unless someone took the time to reglue the boxes,sometimes I wish Id keep my mouth shut!!cannt never win,Ive been at this for a little bit of time and the older I get the lesser it seems I know! Thats why my MCs with the exception of one (which was judged before I owned it ) are never brought to meets roadruns yes meets never !



MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEWYEAR !!!!!!!!

[Fiskis]

Yeah, it seems that a lot of people are not interested in the judging thing for their own bikes it is the same thing here at the local club. It can never be all fair. If I bring a Swedish NV or Monark motorcycle to an American meet, I do not think they could spot all the incorrectnesses, but a VL is all documented down to the last washer.
What I find a bit odd, ist that when a bike is repaired in some way, it is classified as a restored bike. Then you get fined for visible repairs or slight patina on original parts. But if you bolt on a cheap Taiwanese reproduction part, it is ok, (if the finish is right). Still, an original part is the only real thing. But that seem to be the game, and I'm willing to sacrifice a few points for preffering an original Cycle Ray lens with a hardly visible scratch. You build the bike for yourself anyway, don't you.
But I do not agree that detailing a bike is the opposite of riding it. In the restoration the biggest part is getting it into a perfect technical condition. Most of the outside comes with the package. When the mechanics are perfect, you cannot help riding it whenever you have the opportunity.

But back to the original question, any more opinions on black taillights!!! Shall I rivet them back?

[Mike L]

Replacing rivets are no problem, I got mine at the local rivet manufacture. I went in with an old rivet, they found some identical on the shelf and gave me a handfull.
I went through the judging thing with my 35VLD. At first it was interesting and quite a challenge. Started in 2001 with a J2 at 86 points, corrected a few things and the next meet was J1 at 99 points, then back to 95 points at the next meet for a Senior after correcting a few more things then some of the corrections last time were right before and got knocked down for the corrections I just made. It all depends on the judges at the time. I finally got the WC at 99-1/4 points. I ended up becoming an apprentice judge after the second time having my bike judged. Mostly to learn a bit more on restoring the old bikes and also how the judging game is played.
This bike is also my rider, after the second WC award I was rear ended by a car. the insurance company wanted to total it,' cause their adjuster said the frame was bent. I had it back together a year later for another WC award and have a total of 9 WC's now and still riding.

[Fiskis]

Yeah, I will probably rivet them back and put the exchange chrome cups aside for future use. We also had some discussion on the Flatheadpower site with some for, some against black taillamp. A 1/4 point is always worth a healthy argument, without there is no fun in this game!!!

[Johnny]

One other point to consider: Although the chrome bucket was announced for the 1934 models, it is possible that the painted cups left over from 1933 were used on the early 1934 machines. I have seen many examples of where model year changes were not implemented until well into the production year.

[Steve Slocombe]

The chrome tail light cup was announced as a new feature for the 1934 twins, with a picture in the August 1933 model launch Enthusiast, which is why I made a deduction at the Dessau judging. It is possible that Servicar and police bikes continued with the black cup for a while, and nos items made in WW2 would not have chrome either. Original paint 1934-36 VLs I have seen have all had the chrome cup, but these have been US bikes. I stand by the deduction. For a quarter point I think the 'original' cup can stay on, while the owner continues his research. The points about inconsistent judging and makes other than Harley/Indian are well made, and should be taken up in the judging section of this forum. How about some stories about the history of your great bike Fiskis?

[Fiskis]

Hi Steve, I probably will rivet them black beauties back. These cups show no trace of chrome on the backside, where Mike L:s cups had clearly visible plating. I have taked to a few longtime owners of 1934-38 Harleys originally sold here in Finland. Sofar nobody had even heard of chrome cups before new antique motorvehicles began to turn up in mid-eighties, when importation fees became affordable. 20 years ago you would have got a deduction for a chrome cup! But of course, these are all older restorations and old owners, so that won't hold in court. But there are a couple of unrestored original paint bikes in an other part of the country, which I have not seen in real life. I'll look them out one day.

The biggest problem with writing a little story of this bike is that it has been involved in so many "adventures" that it would fill a book. But I apreciate your patience waiting year after year for that story.
Fiskis